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5 Bodies in San Clemente Identified, Neighbors Speak
 Vol. 3, Issue 22, May 29-June 4, 2008
By Rebecca Nordquist, Lacey Nadeau and Norb Garrett
San Clemente Times
Authorities and community seek answers following the discovery of five dead family members in a San Clemente home
Memorial Day seemed like any other day in Sea Pointe Estates—a gated neighborhood with ocean views off Camino de los Mares on the north side of San Clemente, high above the Krikorian theater. The gate guard checked in guests and waved on residents, and only a few neighbors were outside on this Monday. And if one passed 31 Campanilla, they would never know that less than 24 hours earlier five dead bodies were found inside this million-dollar home. The only evidence of something amiss was a Chevy truck blocking the driveway with a discreet decal on the side reading “Orange County Crime Scene Cleaners.”
A day after the discovery, there was no crime-scene tape, no one guarding the door—only three cars in the driveway, presumably those of the deceased, a clean mattress propped up against the three-car garage, the front door open with cardboard covering the glass oval in the center and a jar with cut roses near the mailbox. The ocean breeze, however, carried the odor of the five decomposed bodies as the crime scene was being cleaned up and aired out.
The bodies have been identified by the Orange County Sheriff’s Department as being those representing three generations of a Turkish family. Manas Ucar, who owned the Campanilla home, was 58. His wife, Margrit, was 49. Two young women were their twin daughters, Grace and Margaux, 21. Also found was Margrit’s mother, Fransuhi Kesisoglu, 72. Manas and Margrit emigrated from Turkey, and Fransuhi was a legal resident from Turkey. The five were found Sunday, May 25 around 3:50 p.m. by family members who broke through a window after becoming concerned about their apparent disappearance.
The bodies were found in a downstairs bedroom; they were all dressed in black attire. The mother and father were found on the floor of the room’s closet, and two handguns were lying next to them. Manas and Margrit had each suffered one gunshot wound, said OCSD spokesperson Lt. Erin Giudice, who said one gun was registered to Margrit but details on the other gun were unknown. Grace and Margaux were found lying in the bed, and Fransuhi was in a chaise lounge next to the bed. It was unclear how these three died, because the bodies were so badly decomposed. Results of the autopsies are expected in six to eight weeks. Authorities believe the bodies had been there for two to three weeks, and the odor was so powerful, investigators had to enter the house wearing Scott Air-Pak breathing apparatuses.
Armen Kesisoglu, Margrit’s brother and Fransuhi’s son, who owns Armen Diamond Setting in Los Angeles, was reached Wednesday by phone but did not comment. With him was a cousin of the family who said they were too distraught to speak about the tragedy. According to the OCSD’s blotter, a brother and a cousin of the owners asked police on Saturday, May 24 to check on their family, whom they had not heard from in more than three weeks. Deputies called San Clemente Towing to open a vehicle in the driveway and look for a garage-door opener but could not gain access to the house that day.
On Monday as Americans worldwide celebrated Memorial Day, the coroner’s office started performing autopsies. Giudice held a press conference in the SDG&E parking lot across the street from the Sea Pointe Estates as four television crews broadcast the tragedy. While not certain of what occurred, Giudice said her department felt confident that the crime was contained to the house and that the possibility of a murder-suicide was likely. They are not looking for other suspects. “We believe the community is safe at this time,” said Giudice, noting San Clemente is not a typical location for this kind of crime.
Before family members broke into the house on Sunday, twice police had been called to perform welfare checks on the residence—first on May 14 and again on May 24—but observed nothing they considered suspicious. Both relatives and neighbors assumed the family was on vacation. Giudice said welfare checks consist of an inspection by deputies to see if anything looks out of order or suspicious. On the second visit by police, officers asked the family if they wanted them to break into the home. They declined the offer, instead hoping to hear from the family. By Sunday, their patience gave out.
Neighbors have described the Ucar family as being quiet, Giudice said, and up until this point there had been little if any attention given the family. In 2000 police were called to the residence for a suspicious circumstances call, but nothing came of it.
Next door neighbor Sylvia Marnella, who built a home next to the Ucars in 2005, said people generally keep to themselves in the gated community of Sea Pointe Estates—and the Ucars were no exception. She said she had limited interaction with the family, only speaking to Manas. She said the Ucars’ windows were always closed, the shades were always pulled and she never heard arguments. “[You] don’t hear a lot here with the ocean breezes coming in and the street down there,” she said. When they did come in contact, she added, they were always very friendly. “[Manas] apologized for not getting to know us better and that now they were moving.”
Marnella noted that conversation took place about a year ago, but nothing changed—until the first of this month. “We noticed they were cleaning everything out, so we thought they were probably getting ready to move, but instead maybe they were getting ready for something else,” Marnella said with a pause and an understanding that she was referring to the reported murder-suicide. “They just put all kinds of stuff out there; truckloads of things were hauled away.
“That week they were cleaning up was the only time I saw into their [home], quite possibly their bedroom—supposedly where things happened. It just looked like they were cleaning up.” The timing, she said, lined up with the authorities’ time frame of when the family was last seen two to three weeks ago.
She said Manas told her his wife had been a physician before coming to the United States, but couldn’t get her license to practice here. Manas was a consultant and an expert witness for accident investigations—it was a business he started in Syracuse, N.Y., and continued when he moved to Southern California. He earned his Ph.D. from Syracuse University, where he was an assistant professor in the Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, teaching thermal science and energy for about six years, said Alan Levy, professor and department chair. Levy, a friend of Manas’s, said the news of his death came as a shock. “He was such a mild-mannered individual,” he said. “He was a very sweet, nonviolent, non-threatening, nice, scholarly kind of person.”
Steve Jackson, who worked with the family on two business transactions involving land in the Sea Pointe Estates, said both Manas and his wife were always hospitable and welcoming. “I recall that Margrit was my contact point for the real estate transactions,” said Jackson, who noted that the family had planned well for the future, especially when it came to planning for the girls’ education. “Manas would kindly invite me into the home, ask if I needed anything like water and offer me a seat at the dining room table where I would wait for Margrit. [He] would then excuse himself and go back to his office while I completed any paperwork, or real estate discussions with Margrit. It struck me as different since the Ucars were from an old-world culture that my dealings were with the wife. I mentioned this to my wife Lily and how wonderful I thought it was. Her comment was that he must really love and respect her.”
The twin daughters, Margaux and Grace, went to Truman Benedict Elementary School, Bernice Ayer Middle School and graduated from San Clemente High School in 2004. The pair graduated from the UC San Diego in January—earlier than the typical four years—and had each earned a bachelor’s degree in biology. Though their graduation requirements were met and they were no longer taking classes, they were probably planning to walk with their graduating class in June, said Pat Jacoby, spokesperson for the university. According to high school classmates, the girls were intelligent, hard-working students.
“I figured whatever they’d go off to do, they’d be very successful, because they were always dedicated to their studies,” said Eddie Barragan, who graduated from SCHS in 2005. The girls, he said, always kept to themselves.
Merryl Jensen, who graduated from SCHS in 2004, went to school with Grace and Margaux from kindergarten to 12th grade. “They were always very quiet and very polite and very sweet,” she said. “They were always together, always wearing the same clothes. They were very close.”
As news of the deaths spreads throughout San Clemente, questions run rampant about the causes and rationale for such a terrible crime. Neighbors, including Marnella, mostly hope for answers and eventual closure to the horrific event that happened only feet from her kitchen window where she once waved to them.
Some answers are sure to be forthcoming over the next days and weeks.
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I can't find anything on the autopsy conclusions for the family. Where the parents were shot on thier bodies, and how the others were killed. Anyone know? I walked through that house last weekend. Upon going downstairs, there was a definate heaviness that weighed down on us.The longer we were there, the harder it was to breathe. It felt like I was suffocating. My niece and I both felt pressure in our heads. The only thing we were told before entering was that 5 people died there. When I walked in the closet there was a discoloration in the tile. I told my niece that it looked like a huge blood pool. A couple days after, I had a friend look the story up online and found out the parents were found in that closet. Goosebumps! Would like to know more of the story if anyone knows it.
This whole thing sounds very fishy to me.If they were planning to kill themselves why did they cleaned up the house and hauled the furniture away prior to their suicide?It makes no sense.They were apparently making an escape plan.But unfortunately killers got them before they could succeed and made it look like it was murder-suicide.it is a crying shame.
Being Turkish-American myself, I cannot say that the girls experienced any treatment different from any of the other kids at school. I know that everyone wants to say how "misunderstood" the girls and their family was because, tragically, they are now gone. I don't believe the girls to be misunderstood. Their lives were heavily dictated by their parents. The girls were not incapable of making friends, I believe they were instructed not to. This was insured by frequent visits from their mother and grandmother to campus during breaks and lunch time. This family obviously has a lot of secrets and they took and are taking great lengths to keep it this way. Has anyone ever heard the conclusion of their deaths? Perhaps they were running from something and maybe that something finally caught up with them. The way they were laying in the room suggests a planned event. I believe it was planned and they all knew what they were doing.
I always saw them in the hall and they were always smiling. I was one year ahead of them so we never shared any classes. I remember one summer, when traveling in Turkey with my family, we sat in a cafe for lunch one afternoon and there they were, the whole family at the table next to us. We spoke to them in Turkish and wished them a happy vacation and they wished the same for us. But when I returned to school, nothing changed in the way that we greeted each other in the hall. So, the argument that no one would except them because they were so different is false because even upon finding someone who is from the same area and can speak the same language they never befriended. They avoided the other people in school and kept to themselves and there is nothing wrong with that, but to say that this was not intentional is false.
Anyone who says they knew Grace and Margaux, didn't know them at all.
They're all wearing black in the photos that they provided, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on this. Are there any autopsy results yet? What a tragic story and may they rest in peace.
The article indicates that the family was moving nearly a year ago and therefore may have suffered the same pain as many of us have, that homes in this price range are moving slowly. The family may have been suffering financially as a result of this and were unwilling or unable to ask for help. Sadly, the Ucar family was much more than their home, money or problems...may God grant their family peace.
Thank you for the nice story Danielle and the lighthearted, thoughtful and kind insight in regard to this sad unfortunate story. After reading some of the posts on other news websites, I was begining to lose all faith in humanity. This is a sad, sad story and hopefully law enforcement can somehow find the truth.
Sorry for my first definition of Armenian religion
The Armenian Apostolic Church is based on Apostles.
Apostles Bartholomew and Thaddeus as the founders, and St. Gregory the Illuminator as merely the first official head of the Armenian church in 301.
I have a hard time believing that it was suicide, since the girls would have had so much to live for since they had just finished college. Someone could have dressed them in black after the murder to make it look like suicide. I hope that the police will be able to find out what happened. and if there would be any reason for them to do something like this. My sympathy and prayers to the family and friends...this must be a very hard time for you.
I went to middle school with the daughters. What I remember most is that they always wore the same outfits as each other and that their mom would come to school and eat lunch with them nearly every day, sometimes in the car.
<b>Peniamin,
Thank you for the clarification regarding your cousins religion and may I extend my sincerest condolence.
Sounds like another case of Greenspan's Body Count:
http://wcvarones.blogspot.com/2008/05/strange-case-of-ucar-family.html
Again, I think this was planned. It's strange they all wore black. I mean could'nt there be any blood test even though the bodies were decomposed? Poisoning maybe? This is way gnar.
Daniell I was glad to read your story. Thanks for sharing. I think you put things into perspective. The truth is no matter how they died it is a sad story. Thanks for the insight Daniell.
According to a neighbor, the wife's father who also used to live there with them and passed away originally owned the 2 empty lots next to their home and most likely that is why the husband let the wife deal with the real estate person....
I'am a cousin of Margaux.
I'd like to precise that Armenian are not Orthodox like Russians or Greeks. Our religion is based on Christian Gospels and a majority of Armenian people all around the world are devoutly religious.
Concerning my cousine and my aunt they were authentic Armenian and religious.
what was the daily temperatures like in the area in the past 4-5 weeks
what was the temp gage set at the crime scene when the investigators arrived
I cannot say for sure what religion the grandmother practiced, but I know that both Margaux, Grace, and their mother Margrit were very devoutly Armenian Orthodox. When we were in 10th or 11th grade the girls began to wear large cross necklaces, and it seemed as though their faith became increasingly important to them. I remember them sharing in one of our classes about religious persecution in Turkey, and how many members of their family or acquaintance had to flee. The scarf that their grandmother wore didn't resemble the scarves those who practice Islam wear. I always thought their grandmother embodied what I imagine a Russian babushka to look like, and I think the scarf was worn because she was elderly.
Danielle,
What a well written and beautiful recall of your friendship with the girls.
You mention that their grandmother always wore a silk scarf tied around her head, was she Muslim?
This is strange. It obviously had to be planned.
I have been very disheartened by the ways in which newspapers, nationally and internationally, have been portraying Margaux, Grace, and the Ucar family. I went to school with both girls from kindergarten through high school, and shared many classes with them throughout the years. The twins were very close, very bright, and very sweet. In our childhood, I think the girls were labeled by many as "goody goodies," but because I fell into that category as well, I was able to spend a good deal of time with them assisting our teachers during our lunch breaks or playing handball on the playground. I remember that Margrit would often be at school to help teachers, or to take her daughters to lunch. Their grandmother was always accompanying Margrit, with a silk scarf tied around her head and a smile on her face. The girls were always very gifted academically, and I remember them sharing with me that they wanted to become playwrights in the 6th grade. They were already working on a script. As we grew older, they continued to excel in their studies, and very early on in high school they decided that they wanted to be doctors. It was also during high school that the girls got into high fashion, and I remember them always wearing their designer jeans and tops, and pulling their high-end wheeled backpacks. At 17 or 18 years of age, the girls were always dressed in black because of its popularity in the fashion world. Dressed in the same outfits, Margaux and Grace also sported fashions that were very mature for our age. I remember when I was a little girl thinking that their mother, Margrit, was always very well-dressed, and I think the girls probably began doing the same because of her. I never had the impression that the girls were overly private or strange. If anything, I think that immature children thought that their relationship as twins was so different that they were automatically labeled as dorky. It to me always seemed that the mother would eat lunch with them not because she was over-protective, but because other children had a hard time accepting the twins. Because I feel that I was better friends with them than most other children growing up, I can truthfully and sincerely say that the girls were more than willing to befriend me, whether by chatting or playing games. To say that their relationship seemed strange is ridiculous because they were identical twins after all, and I'm sure they had a bond that nobody can really understand. I even remember asking them when we were children whether they ever thought about exchanging places with one another to take an exam, but they always just laughed and said they wouldn't really do it. My heart breaks to think that my friends appear to have been tragically murdered. The media focus on the Ucars' private life or the fact that they were dressed in black taken out of context could be twisted to mean any number of things. I think the fact that they were an immigrant Turkish family would have made life in America difficult enough, and so it is understandable that they may have appeared more private. It seems as though the general public is demonizing the family as a foreign cult, when anyone who really knew the girls or the family would be very surprised that such loving and devoted people could be the central actors in such a gruesome story.